John D. Barrow.

The Universe, so physicists tell us, is governed by a few basic laws of nature. But how can that be? How can the wonderfully complex world around us be governed by a few simple rules? We asked mathematician and cosmologist John D. Barrow from the University of Cambridge, who explains what differentiates laws of nature from their outcomes, how the complexity of the world conceals elegant mathematical symmetries, and how chaos can arise from order.

To read articles based on this interview or see a video of it, see *Stuff happens: Laws versus outcomes*. This podcast is part of our *Stuff happens* project, run in collaboration with FQXi.

Podcast download link: